| Synapse:
How did Kraftwerk begin? And whar were you doing at
that time? |
| Ralf
Hütter: We had been getting together at the
musical academy and then started to perform live concerts of amplified music
in 68 and the directly getting into what we call repeat music and from then
on we started to continually work. In 1970 we opened our studios, Kling
Klang Studio, Düsseldorf, just with some tape recorders and that was the
beginning of our recording activities. From then on we worked in our studio,
progressing from one thing to the next. |
| Synapse:
You and Florian started Kraftwerk... |
| Ralf
Hütter: Yes. |
| Synapse:
When did you add the other members? |
| Ralf
Hütter: We have always worked with different
people according to the music we have been writing. Sometimes we have six,
four, five, three members. We even played a series of concerts with just
the two of us. There was an album of that period. We have two electronic
drummers in our new group, which has been the most consistent so far. |
| Synapse:
Could you explain what kind of instruments the electronic
drummers play? |
| Ralf
Hütter: Self-designed electronic drums that
are manually operated. We also have, of course, automatic electronic sequencer
drums. It is not a great invention in a sense but the way it effects our
psychological performance has been very strong. There is no member in our
group producing direct acoustic sounds, we create loud speaker music, direct
loud speaker impact. |
| Synapse:
When you were at the academy, were you studying music
and composition? |
| Ralf
Hütter: Yes. |
| Synapse:
Who were you studying with? |
| Ralf
Hütter: Nobody of any stature. |
| Synapse:
Were they teaching electronic music there? |
| Ralf
Hütter: No, It was classical training. What
you would call very basic classical training. |
| Synapse:
When Kraftwerk first started, did you have any problem
arranging concerts and having them attended by audiences? |
| Ralf
Hütter: Yes and no. Germany is very open
to new music. It is not like America, where there is strong entertainment
thing. Everything in America is measured by its entertainment value. If
you do not draw a sell out, then you are nobody. In Germany, it's not measured
this way, it's rather for the pure interest people really come and listen
and sit down. Florian and I have done some concerts for very long periods,
also with close relation to visual arts. We've worked with some artists
and done all kinds of things like lying on the floor or playing from other
positions. It's not really an entertainment show, it's an avant-garde music
scene and the whole scene is very open to anything that comes out and brings
some information. |
| Synapse:
Why do you think that is the case in Germany, as opposed
to America or other places? |
| Ralf
Hütter: Well, there's this cultural tradition.
On one hand we have the same that you have with official entertainment.
We could say we have this with state music which is classical music supported
by the state radio stations and state cultural opera houses. They all get
money from government tax. I pay tax and this money is used to produce classical
music concerts which might be good but I do not really want to support them
but I have to because they cannot exist on their own. It is a dictatorship
of the established musical culture but again there is a very strong movement
against this with any open new musical culture, so as soon as someboby comes
up and tries to do something, then he gets support from very many people
who also feel disillusioned with this repeating classical operas over and
over again for the hundredth year. It's really of no use at all. |
| Synapse:
Do you think Stockhausen had a lot to do with the
way the avant-garde developed. |
| Ralf
Hütter: Yes, but it's not just one person
that stands out in the general spiritual movement/attitude. |
| Synapse:
Is Europe on the whole generally open to this sort
of music? |
| Ralf
Hütter: Well there is always the chance for
outsiders, because it is not so big. You travel for one hour then you come
into a completely different country. We live a half hour from Holland and
Belgium. If you travel another hour, you go right into France. So it's a
mixing of different cultures on the Rhineland and this makes possible for
different spiritual things to happen. |
| Synapse:
Have you found yourself being influenced by this cross
culture availability? |
| Ralf
Hütter: I think yes on the conscious level
but also subconsciously from our general history and kinetic existence.
My passport says I'm a German but in reality, the Rhine where we live has
been German, has been Rumanian, French, has been Dutch, even Russian. The
country has been taken over and over again by different cultures so we are
really like a cultural supermarket. |
| Synapse:
Do you normally in the shows you're doing now, involve
visual arts on the stage? |
| Ralf
Hütter: We've worked three or four years
with Emil Schult. He is a graduate of the Düsseldorf Art Academy. We work
together on the composition of lyrics, poetry, sound poetry and also visually.
He does album covers and things we discuss together and work at together,
but he's the one who does this actually. And also, projection of pictures.
It's not a light show but it's rather static... sound paintings, we call
them sound paintings. |
| Synapse:
Do you have any visuals that are interfaced with your
electronics by means of voltage control? |
| Ralf
Hütter: No, nothing which goes directly but
rather it goes through the people. First it goes through a human being,
and then into the audience. |
| Florian
Schneider: In the past we have made some comics. |
| Synapse:
Comics? |
| Ralf
Hütter: Yes, we also designed comics... musical
comics and we are working this year and maybe we will finish during the
end of the year a music book to give instruction and present more aspects
of our music than are just possible on record or in a live concert. Things
that we have when we talk together, sitting in a cafe or somewhere and all
these things going on all the time... music coming out of coffee cups or
anywhere... all the sounds in general from the environment. We are working
on this... it might be finished by the end of the year. |
| Synapse:
Could you describe what the comic was? |
| Florian
Schneider: It's a story with these small plug-in
systems trying to get in the inputs and outputs... trying to make... |
| Ralf
Hütter: Contact! In electronics, always you
have different components trying to get in contact and form things.It's
like people meeting, and we have a story of these small, different electronic
components meeting each other and getting together and making up something
forming a special group. It's hard to illustrate by talking but when you
see it... |
| Synapse:
Has this been released publicly? |
| Ralf
Hütter: Yes, but only part of it and when
we have this book together, there will be more of these stories. |
| Synapse:
When you started recording in your studio, how did
you interest a company in distributing your record? |
| Ralf
Hütter: We did not go to any companies, or
anything like this because it was not on our mind but it was rather, we
did waht we did and we played at universities and old cinemas and art galleries
and sometimes we played some festivals. The longer we played, more and more
people were coming up to us and handing us business cards saying this or
that. We were not really interested in producers or any people that wanted
to sell themselves to us, or sell some ideological thing that we should
do. We knew right away what we wanted to do so we went to our studios and
produced tapes and then later played for some people and they just took
off from there. So we produced ourselves right from the beginning. There
was never any outside producers or anything like that involved in taking
over our lives or our mind, telling us to play in C# or C minor. |
| Synapse:
Do you still maintain that same freedom now? |
| Ralf
Hütter: Yes, then when we go somewhere and
we have a failure, then we can always say who it was. We can't say it's
the fault of the producer so and so, he told me to play in C. |
| Florian
Schneider: It is always our decision. |
| Ralf
Hütter: Yes, we have full responsibility
for the music we put on. |
| Synapse:
Recently, I saw in Billboard that "Radioactivity"
was the #1 LP in France. |
| Ralf
Hütter: For two months. |
| Synapse:
Has it been the kind of success you've been having
in general across Europe? |
| Ralf
Hütter: Well, it's hard to say. It's the
first time we've gone to anything like number 1. What does it mean? I do
not know but we have always found a positive reaction in general to our
music. As I explained before, we do not stand alone in putting this (music)
across. There are many people who plays electronic music at home and build
hobby radios. The Germans have a very strong technical culture and a heavily
mathematical attitude which is even brought up in schools, so engineering
is rated very high. Many young people make their own radio and speak to
their friend next door and thing like that. |
| Synapse:
So the whole culture would seem to be a lot more supportive
of the music that you're currently making. In this country, there has recently
been a radio boom but because of the advertisement that's been done about
it. |
| Ralf
Hütter: Yes, in America we find many things
are purely rated for their commercial value. A radio station is more than
just advertising to me. Maybe it's a very important aspect but if it's the
only aspect, it's so boring. It's not worth the time you spend. I mean what
is life going to be if you just value these terms? You lose everything else.
For one thing, you lose all the rest and you have to reconsider if it's
really worth spending 60 or 80 years just looking at one thing. I don't
think it is worth it. We don't even consider music the only thing we can
do. We do all kinds of things. Everything circles around music but there
are many, many aspects. |
| Synapse:
Have you built much of your own equipment or has some
of it been bought from commercial manufacturers? |
| Ralf
Hütter: Well, some are from commercial manufacturers,
but some things are custom built, some things are rebuilt, and others are
just put together from different components which are not meant to be put
together that way. We always work with another friend, an engineer who is
still in the technical college. It is not the thing itself, it's also the
use. Like a microphone. What does it mean a microphone? You can record birds
singing or you can record a motor race or you can record the human voice
or interviews. It's only a medium. A good electronic music studio doesn't
make good electronic music. So that's why we've created this word "The Human
Machine" or "The Man Machine" or "Kraftwerk", which it stands for. At one
time we are machinery but at the same time we are human. So we're neither
simply humans or machines. It's a symbiosis. |
| Synapse:
Do you think we will become cybernetic. Cybernetic
meaning that there will be an interface between electronics and the physical
nature of human beings? |
| Ralf
Hütter: Oh yes. |
| Synapse:
Where do you think that will take us futuristically? |
| Ralf
Hütter: Well, more... maybe more fun. The
thing is not to be afraid. I think sometimes people are so afraid. Just
scared away and would rather stick to cowboy music. |
| Synapse:
Do you consider yourselves pioneers in that respect? |
| Ralf
Hütter: I don't know, but maybe sometimes
we're not so much afraid to try something new and just take a risk. I find
it boring to go back to 1848 and try to sing about this. I mean, what does
it mean today? We are 1976. There are different things in the air today
which we have to speak about to have any value at all other than being a
living museum. |
| Synapse:
Your album "Autobahn" got to number 5 in
the charts here. Was it a surprise that would happen in this country? |
| Ralf
Hütter: This is one major tuning point in
our lives when we first crossed the Atlantic with our electronic equipment.
We arrived with some old suitcases in New York City. Before in Germany we
went from our studio to some place and then did something and went back
out then we went somewhere and suddenly the world was round. It was a different
psychological situation too. I think this shows in our music that we have
been doing since then. It is another dimension. |
| Synapse:
How do you feel this reflects in your music? |
| Ralf
Hütter: Well, there is this continuity which
we call... well, endless you could say. Our new album is called "Europe
Endless". |
| Synapse:
Cyclic, so you're never coming to the end? |
| Ralf
Hütter: Right, that's what the music is also
like. We have to start the concert at 8:00 and we have to stop sometime
because the halls are rented for a certain time but the music goes on in
your mind before and after you play. Its' really just an agreement you make
to stop at a certain time. On record, it goes for 40 minutes because an
album has these dimensions. It's just an agreement. But really the music
goes on. That's what we want to do to open up people's ears to everyday
sounds so that they can find more music and are not so much dependent on
just three minute records. |
| Synapse:
I can't help but think of John Cage. |
| Ralf
Hütter: Yes. |
| Synapse:
One thing he tries to get across is that we don't
have to be organizers in order to have music, that music exists without
us. We only need to be open and listen. |
| Ralf
Hütter: We call it Tape Consciousness. |
| Synapse:
What is Tape Consciousness? |
| Ralf
Hütter: Your mind is like a blank tape, and
so whatever comes in is recorded. |
| Synapse:
Who invented this phrase? |
| Ralf
Hütter: It just came. This is possible since
the 40's, when magnetic tape was introduced in Germany. So this is not just
an object but is effects your mind. It's not just outside on tape but it
is also here (pointing to himself). You know when you push the red button,
that you live in a different situation. |
| Synapse:
Do you find people like John Cage, Stockhausen and
Liggetti to be influences on your thinking? |
| Ralf
Hütter: Yes, because they had official status
and we were the next generation we would hear their music on the radio.
It was very natural. It seems in America on one hand, things are very advanced
with all this technology but on the other hand... |
| Florian
Schneider: The hardware in America is very advanced
but the software is very often antique. |
| Ralf
Hütter: You have modern TV systems and then
you put on a cowboy show. It should be that the program is adequate to the
technology of the apparatus. That's what we try to do. If we succeed I don't
know. |
| Synapse:
All of Europe isn't like that I'm sure. It seems their
as suceptible to the entertainment factor as we are. |
| Ralf
Hütter: Oh sure, I can watch "Bonanza" if
I have nothing else to do. I feeel always there are so many things that
we should do and have to do that I don't take the time. But there is a very
large portion of people that are lazy and they take whatever is on television
for given. Once you realize how it's done and what it really means, you
come even to the point that you cannot watch it because you get physically
sick. It makes me sick. |
| Florian
Schneider: I can't stand American TV. |
| Ralf
Hütter: We never watch TV here or very rarely.
It conditions your mind. You do not tlak to everybody in the street so why
should I listen to everybody on television just because he's on television,
it doesn't mean he has anything to say. Just the status of being in the
medium does not mean the information has any more value. I'd rather listen
to a friend who I meet and who might not to be on television that has something
to say to me. |
| Synapse:
What kind of response did you get in America? |
| Ralf
Hütter: We have had a very positive reaction
to our music because I think in America there is also this consciousness
that people want something different, new, instead of something routine. |
| Synapse:
Most of your music is black and white keyboard oriented.
Other composers are into a more esoteric music where the black and white
keyboard is almost taboo, they're into touch sensitive, modulation, skin
response and alpha waves. |
| Ralf
Hütter: This for us is also a realistic problem.
In order to record alpha waves we have to have some academic status to be
able to get the necessary equipment and we do not really go for academic
status. We were lucky to get in touch with these things and expose ourselves
to such news. |
| Synapse:
We were talking before about the symbiosis between
the environment we can technologically create for ourselves and what we
are as people and how they affect each other and form a symbiosis. How do
you see computers entering into this? Do they interest you for your performances? |
| Ralf
Hütter: Yes, we use a lot of computer components
although we don't have a big computer system, but we use computer storage
like a sequencer. |
| Synapse:
How have you evolved from "Radioactivity" to "Europe
Endless"? What has changed. what's new? |
| Ralf
Hütter: It's hard to say, we do not have
the distance to talk freely about it. It's still very, very close. As far
as I can say now, it's dealing more with this psychological aspect we were
talking about whereas some of our former albums were dealing with certain
outside things like "Autobahn". On there we have this story of our music
being played over the car radio while we are sitting in the car and driving.
This is what actually happened while we were in America. We were driving
from the airport to the hotel and turned on the radio and our music was
coming out. The composition was about this ans it is reality for us. |
| Synapse:
And it's cyclic. It comes out of the radio, goes into
you and onto your next record. |
| Ralf
Hütter: Yes, we just have to stop because
it is a record. The new album is more self-reflective of our cultural standpoints. |
| Synapse:
Are you involving as much if not mre vocal material
on "Europe Endless" as you have in the past? |
| Ralf
Hütter: Yes, but for nine years we were afraid
to put our voice on tape. |
| Synapse:
Why is that? |
| Ralf
Hütter: I don't know, its some kind of... |
| Florian
Schneider : Paranoia. |
| Ralf
Hütter: Tape paranoia. |
| Synapse:
And yet, it's such a way to achieve that symbiosis.
|
| Ralf
Hütter: Yes, once we were able to put these
voices out and find a positive reaction it has happened more and more. Now
we have... I shall not say overcome, that is not right but we have... |
| Synapse:
You don't feel as paranoid. |
| Ralf
Hütter: Yes, we do, but we can handle it.
Because it is still there, it would be worng to deny our tape paranoia as
you have noticed with something in America celled "Watergate Tapes". This
is also tape consciousness. It is present in all parts of everyday life.
I don't know if in America tapes are legal if somebody records you. How
about what we had to say to you so that you could print this. So it would
be wrong to deny tape paranoia. It would be a lie. We can work with this
in such a way as to help us... our existence. It discovers things within
ourselves we wouldn't have known before. |
| Synapse:
On your "pre-Autobahn" album there were acoustic instruments
pictured on the cover. Do you plan to utilize acoustic instruments in the
future? |
| Ralf
Hütter: We are totally electronic apart from
voice. It's just that the means for producing our ideas is ideal in electronics.
When we have something we want to say on a violin, we will use a violin
to say it, but rather what we want to say in the last two or three years
was purely through electronic mediums. |
| Synapse:
Is there a special way you use voices? Is it semantic
or used for its sound value? |
| Ralf
Hütter: For both. We always compose what
we call sound poetry, where the words are chosen or come out of a special
sound pattern so that even if we sing in German, which we did on "Autobahn",
we were understood in America and in Japan because the words sound like
what they mean, although they may have a more semantic or logical meaning.
Most of our lyrics we compose out of sound, and also some of the lyrics
are composed strictly for meaning, then they also are spoken. We use the
voice in all different aspects. |
| Florian
Schneider: Vocal painting... |
| Synapse:
Have you done any works using vocal sounds as the
only sound source? |
| Florian
Schneider: Not yet, but we think about that. |
| Ralf
Hütter: We also make most of the music out
of singing so we make the oscillator sing and breathe. It's not that all
the things are purely mechanical or very detached, but some of our compositions
are like airwaves, so the airwaves sing. |
| Synapse:
That seems like a continuation of the symbiosis concept
where the technology and the human being become... |
| Ralf
Hütter: One. |
| Synapse:
We were talking earlier about the power of the entertainment
media. Popular music seems to be one of the largest manifestations of that
idea in this country. Kraftwerk is able to exist on that level too. How
do you see yourselves in relation to popular music? Would you consider your
music as being a popular music or do you see it any way contradictory to
the medium? |
| Ralf
Hütter: No, it just happened to be popular. |
| Synapse:
It wasn't your intent to make it popular? |
| Ralf
Hütter: We just want to speak to other people
with our music but we can't force anyone to like it or not like it. |
| Florian
Schneider: When you've found something you think
is true, you try to make it popular. |
| Ralf
Hütter: We consider ourselves not so much
entertainers as scientists. The idea of the scientist or mad scientist finding
something that is true within its definition. We work on our studio / laboratories
and we find something, we put it on a tape, it is there and we present it.
We find that many people like the way we work. |
| Synapse:
In my thinking I would say that Kraftwerk is an ensemble
and that seems to be part of your musical intent. Yours is not a synthesis
trying to create orchestral grandeur, but a group of four, an ensemble.
What do you think about Tomita, Larry fast (Synergy) and Walter Carlos,
who are trying to do an orchestral electronic music, where they do not relate
as a performer but mostly as a master controller. What is your feeling about
that sort of usage of electronic music? |
| Ralf
Hütter: Very good, but it's like you said,
a master controller and they do not write about any experience, they just
adapt the technology to something. I think Walter Carlos only wrote music
on one album about the seasons and I think on all the other records he only
adapted the music to the technology. You can just listen to the record at
home, but when we play the music comes out different, it's like we take
the risk... We have one piece called "Electric Roulette" because our electronic
equipment is very breakable. From time to time, after a series of concerts,
something breaks. We have to take these risks. The records you were taling
about do not take that risk, they just stay in the studio behind closed
doors and release a finished tape. |
| Synapse:
It doens't seem to work towards symbiosis. |
| Ralf
Hütter: No, we go there and stand in front
of other people and we make up the music. I think that's why our music has
also found good reaction. People like to see people doing something, not
just pretending. If we play a tape, we play a tape, and we show that we
play a tape. Most conventional entertainment is just playing a tape but
people pretend to be very live, they shout and sweat but if you come to
the essence of it, it's just a tape that's being produced. We play a tape,
we do not sweat and when we play music or make up music then we show what
we do. |
| Synapse:
What was the thing that involved you with electronic
technology to begin with? |
| Ralf
Hütter: Tape conciousness. |
| Florian
Schneider : The limitations of traditional instruments. |
| Ralf
Hütter: What happens when you turn on the
tape is the basic question. |
| Synapse:
Are many composers in Europe approaching music in
other than a black and white keyboard approach? |
| Ralf
Hütter: Most electronic musicians are afraid
of tonality. When you see the world of frequencies there is tonality, you
cannot deny it. The dictatorship of tonality or the dictatorship of non-tonality,
is the same. |
| Florian
Schneider: The outer musical world. |
| Ralf
Hütter: So when we feel harmony we play harmony,
when we feel disharmony, or free tonality or openness we play open. It makes
no difference, it's the range of frequencies. |
| Synapse:
What did you mean by "the outer musical world"? |
| Florian
Schneider: It's what happens on the street. It's
all you hear. I hear a lot of cars playing symphonies. |
| Ralf
Hütter: They play in harmonics, they play
free harmonics. Even engines are tuned. |
| Florian
Schneider: The 60 hertz tne from the AC outlet. |
| Synapse:
And these lights... the air conditioner... Are there
any instruments you would like to see that are not in existence so far? |
| Ralf
Hütter: One where you can instantly hear
what you think. |
| Synapse:
So immediate transfer from thought process to sonic
proccess. |
| Ralf
Hütter: Without time delay, like thinking
of something, writing it down and going the next day to the studio to spend
hours and hours to produce something. |
| Synapse:
Do you think it can be developed at this time? |
| Ralf
Hütter: Yes, it happens between us. |
| Florian
Schneider: We've worked together for eight or
nine years and sometimes it takes just one word and I know what he means.
Sometimes you see people and you know what they play, you know what they
sound like. |
| Synapse:
So you feel that art and music will be transmitted
telepathically in the future? |
| Florian
Schneider: Definitely. |
| Ralf
Hütter: What else is there to do? |
| Florian
Schneider: Think about Rosemary Brown. |
| Synapse:
Who's Rosemary Brown? |
| Florian
Schneider: She is a medium living in England. |
| Ralf
Hütter: She receives visits from classical
composers. |
| Florian
Schneider: She writes in this way. |
|
|
| Interview
to Doug Lynner and Bryce Robbley - USA |
| Interview originally found at www.cyndustries.com |
|
